S.J.DAY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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RomanyGenes

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  © Copyright  Romanygenes 2007--2020 Design and Web Layout  © 2007-2020 S.J.Day All Rights Reserved

 

Copyright RomanyGenes 2007-2020 Design and Web Layout S.J.Day All Rights Reserved

Betsy Cooper family Continued.

Elizabeth Golding:-  Matthias Cooper

 

Much has been written and said about my grandfather Thomas Coopers grandfather Mathias Cooper. My grandfather himself told me lots of stories of his grandfather and Queen Victoria and as  a child listened with awe. Growing up you then begin to doubt stories until one day in the 1990s my cousin Linda Roberts received a package from Windsor Castle with excerpts from Queen Victorias Diaries and there my doubts gone. Everything my grandfather told me was true and much more!

Matthias mother was known as Mary, that we know from the Royal Diaries but not much has ever been said of Mattys father Henry. I discovered Henry when I ordered my great grandfather Samuel Coopers marriage certificate to Patience Smith in December 1979. The witnesses  for the marriage in 1872 in Poynings were a James and Gentilla Hazelgrove.  I knew Matty had a sister Genty, so I investigated the marriage of the Hazelgroves and at first was disappointed to find Genty was a Parsons....until I looked at the name of her father and found it to be Henry Cooper. Genty was indeed the sister of Matty, James Hazelgrove being her second marriage, the first being to Charles Parsons.

Matty only mentions his father a few times to Charles Godfrey Leland and his niece Elizabeth Pennell. He tells them about how he camped under the stars with his father at Stonehenge and how his father when a young lad came across some smugglers running from a cave near fields at Bo Peep nr Hastings in Sussex.

Henry, I believe, to be a brother most likely of Elisha Cooper who married Tryfeny and had amongst many other children, Fighting Jack Cooper (John baptised in 1796 in Old Windsor) John and Matty have always been known as cousins, and most likely first cousins. Another connection between Elisha and Henry is that Solomon son of Elisha marries a Keziah White, daughter of a Henry and Syberana born in 1785 in Wokingham. Solomon and Keziah are the parents of Dukey Cooper bapt 15th February 1807 at St Marys Harrow. Henry and Cyberana are also known as Cooper on the baptism of Morrelly baptised 1783 at Tetbury Gloucestershire. I believe this Morrelly to be the Merrily Cooper who married Issac Joles, they having a son called Henry. Henry and Cyberana White also have a daughter Penelope baptised in 1782  (possibly the Penny who partners Righteous Lee) Now the JGLS have a Penelope as a sister of my Matty so more evidence to connect these close knit families. I had never found evidence of this myself, but am now wondering that Henry White is Henry Cooper my Mattys father and Mary is his second wife but this would be a big time gap but not impossible as I have come across a 20 years gap between siblings before if not then very closely related maybe a grandfather? Another White connection comes up with Mattys sister Sarah having an illegitimate son George who I believe is the George Cooper/White baptised at Upton Grey Hants in 1824 and is on census with Mattys brother Leonard.

My early Coopers turn up at Wiltshire and Gloucestershire – Elisha Cooper with brothers Daniel and William are picked up in 1799 in Kent and state that they have just come from Bristol and were born in Warminster Wiltshire. Elisha is picked up a few times in Kent mainly with the Lees, which makes me think his wife Trypheny was a Lee although the JGLS names her as a Lovell.

As always I need final proof of Henry Cooper being Henry White and being the father of my Matty, but sometimes a little bit of assumption doesnt hurt to get your research kickstarted again there is a baptism for a Matthias to a Henry and Mary White in 1816 Cheltenham (Thanks to John Russel for baptism)5 years out from dates I have (coincidence or is it really him?) I used to put my assumptions as theories on my tree and always let others access but unfortunately many people have put my theories as gospel on their trees, so I try my best not to let others privy to my theories until proved but have decided to let Sue put this up just incase anyone has any information on Henry and Cyberana White/Cooper

I would like to thank Sue and John with their help over the years and the great work they both do for us all.

                                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also From Elizabeth Golding and her cousin Linda :-

 

By Banns in the church of St Anne Westminster

John Cooper of this parish and Charlotte Lee of this parish ( This John is fighting Jack Cooper son of Elisha Cooper and Tryphena nee Lovell)

on this 4th day of December 1815. Both of their marks

Witnessed by Uriah lovell x solomon jones x

 

I dont know if the Uriah Lovell is the one below as on Hoylands list the Uriah Lovell mentioned has wife

and 6 children, so the Uriah below may be son of or perhaps the same if you look at his and Agnes childrens bapts below.

3/2/1812 St Anne soho

Uriah Lovell marries Agnes Dawson

they have John 1813 at St Geo Bloomsbury, Uriah 1815 Old St Pancras, and Edward 1819 St Giles in the Fields, so maybe he is the same Uriah on Hoylands list, as they have children baptised before their marriage.

I wonder if Agnes Dawson is a relation of Eliza Dawson who marries Duke Cooper? The Coopers and Lovells seem quite inter related more than we first thought.

 

On Dukes son, Solomon's marriage to Lavinia Cooper  their witnesses are William Cooper and Elizabeth Airs (sic) who if you look, are married the same day with Solomon and Lavinia as witnesses.

 

Duke Lee and Duanna Lee marriage (Diana Lee widow, another on Hoylands list)

This connects a few from Hoylands list, John cooper son of the Lussha cooper, Uriah Lovell and Solomon Jones who are witnesses to Johns marriage. Also the Duke Lee and Duanna marriage,  would be the Diana Lee widow on Hoylands list.

Siteowner :- Below is an extract from the book mentioned in the above article*

**Note John Hoyland's "A Historical Survey of the Customs, Habits and Present State of the Gypsies (1816 York)  

Is mentioned above and below is the extract concerning the above named persons"

 

IN the autumn of 1815, the author made a journey to London, In order to obtain informa tion respecting the Gypsies in its vicinity.The first account he received of the education of any of them, was from Thomas Howard, proprietor of a glass and china shop, No. 50, Fetter-lane, Fleet-street. This person, who preached among the Calvihists, said, that in the winter of 1811, he had assisted in the establishment of a Sunday School in Windmillstreet, Acre-lane, near Clapham. It was under the patronage of a single gentlewoman, of the name of Wilkinson, and principally intended for the neglected and forlorn children of brickmakers, and the most abject of the poor. It was begun on a small scale, but increased till ihe number of scholars amounted to forty.

During the winter, a family of Gypsies, of the name of Cooper, obtained lodgings at a house opposite the school. Trinity Cooper, a daughter of this Gypsey family, who was about thirteen years of age, applied to be instructed at the school; but, in consequence ef the obloquy affixed to that description of persons, she was repeatedly refused. She nevertheless persevered in her importunity, till she obtained admission for herself, and two of her brothers.

Thomas Howard says, that, surrounded as he 'was by ragged children, without shoes and stockings, the tirst lesson he taught them was silence and submission.—They acquired habits of subordination, became tractable and docile; and, of all his scholars, there were not any more attentive and affectionate than these ; and when the Gypsies broke up house in the spring, to make their usual excursions, the children expressed much regret at leaving the school.

This account was confirmed by Thomas Jackson, of Brixton-row, minister of Stockwell Chapel, who said, since the above experiment, several Gypsies had been admitted to a sabbath. school, under the direction of his congregation, At their introduction, he compared them to birds when first put into a cage, which Hew against the sides of it, having no idea of restraint ; but by a steady even care over them, and the influence of the example of other children, they soon became settled, and fell into their ranks.

With a view to reconnoitre an encampment of Gypsies, the author accepted a seat in the carriage of a friend, who drove him to Hainault forest. This, according to historians, was of vast extent in the times of the ancient Britons, reaching to the Thames; and so late as the reign of Henry the 2d, it covered the northern vicinity of the city.

On this forest, about two miles from the vil" lage of Chigwell, Essex, and ten from London, stands the far-famed oak, at which is held Fairlop Fair, that great annual resort of the Gypsies.

After obtaining information at Norwood, of the winter-quarters in London, to which Gypsies resorted ; the author had an interview with branches of several families of them, collected at the house of his friend William Corder, Grocer, in Broad-street, Giles's. And in justice to them, he must observe, that however considerably the fear of apprehension as vagrants, may dispose them, when on travel and among strangers, to elude their inquiries, no disposition to do so, appears in the company of persons to whom they are known, and in whom they can repose confidence.

Being accustomed to lay out their money at. the shop of this grocer, he said they would be very ready to attend upon his invitation; and accordingly, a number of them soon made their appearance. They said there were about twenty of the name of Lovell, who lodged in Bowles's yard, in the neighbourhood. These acknowledged themselves Gypsies, and many of them had the features, as well as the complexion of Asiatics.

Their account is, that they come into lodgings at Michaelmas, and continue till April, then they set out on travel, and go into Norfolk, &c.

That some time ago, some of them had embraced an offer to educate their children at St. Patrick's charity school, which had been established by the chaplain to the Portuguese ambassador; but some dissatisfaction arising in consequence of the religion of the conductors of that Institution, they had removed their children to the school for the Irish, taught by Partak Ivery, No. 5, George-street.

Uriah Lovell, the head of one of the families, made a very decent appearance; three of his children have been four winters at school, and learned to read and write; their father having paid sixpence per week, for each of them.— Partak was sent for, and came to the house of William Corder, where he confirmed the above account, saying there had been six Gypsey children at his school, and that when placed among others, they were reducible to order.

These Gypsies, like those upon Hainault forest, appeared to be greatly delighted at meeting with a person, acquainted, as they thought, with their language, and were remarkably free in speaking it.

James Corder, son of William Corder, obtained the following account of some of the lodgers in Westminster, and in the Borough

 Name. Family. Occupation and Residence.

John Lovell, wife and 6 children, Chair-bottumer, Tunbridge-street.

James Lovell, wife and  6 children. Tinker, Church-lane.

Joseph Lovell, wife and   3 children. Chair-butlomer, New-street.

Thomas Lovell, wife and  2 children . Chair-bottower, Banbridge-street

William Lovell, wife and  1 child. Knife-grinder, Church-street

Family. Occupation and Residence.

Lussha Cooper, wife and 10 children, Rat-catcher, Tottenham-court-road,

Corrie Lovell,wife and   5 children.Knife-grinder, Bolton-street

Uriah Lovell,wife and 6 children.Chair-bottomer, Bolton-street

Thomas Lovell,wife and   7children .Knife-grinder, Paddington.

Solomon Lovell, wife and  4 children.Chair-bottomer, New-street

Solomon Jones, wife and 2 children .Basket-maker and Wireworker,Battle-bridge.

Men and Women, 22 —52 Children:

Family. Occupation and Residence.

John Lee wife and 9 children .Chair Bottomer Tothil- Fields.  

Richard Taylor, wife and 3 children. Wire-worker, New-street

Betsey Lovell, widow, Supported by her son Joseph Lovell.

Joseph Lovell, wife 1 child.Bellows-mender, Shore-ditch

Diana Lee, widow 1 child. Sells Earthenware, Shore-ditch

Mansfield Lee, wife 0 children. Tinker and Grinder, Shore-ditch.

Zachariah Lee, wife. 0 children. Fiddler—Travels the Country.

Thomas Smith, wife and  5 children.  Chair-bottomer, Lisson-green, Paddington.

Thomas Porter, wife and 3 children. Works at the Canal, Paddington.

Charlotte Allen, widow -1 child. Sells Karthenware, Kent-street, Borough.

James Cole, wife and 4 children. Lamplighter and Grinder, Kentstreet, Borough.

Edward Martin, wife, 2 children. Sells Fruit in the Street, Kentstreet, Borough.

Samuel Martin, wife and  6 children. Journeyman Saddler,White Street.

John Sinfield, wife no children. Sells fish in the Streets White Street.

John Taylor, wife and  3 children. Sells fish in the Streets White Street.

Men and Women, 25/ Children.44

Betsy Cooper family Continued.